KeepComingBack.com had the privilege to interview William C. Moyers, Vice President of External Affairs at the Hazelden Foundation, a non-profit substance abuse and addiction treatment center based in Center City, Minnesota. As a person in recovery, Mr. Moyers has shared with countless audiences the power of addiction, and the promise of sobriety and life changes. A former journalist, Mr. Moyers is the author of “Broken,” a book released in 2007 that chronicled his life journey with addiction and in recovery. Mr. Moyers shared with us his insights on addiction, and the future challenges of substance abuse in America.

Q. In your book Broken, you talk about how recovery from substance abuse is essentially a spiritual journey, and that spiritual courage is what helps maintain strength against cravings and destructive behavior. However, it's difficult to “teach” spirituality and its importance to others, so what can friends and family of addicts do to encourage spiritual development?

A. I believe that we learn spirituality; we cannot teach it. Spirituality is a very individualized experience that comes less from others and more from our own experiences. I was taught a lot about religion growing up; I was taught there was a God, a heaven, the difference between good and evil, sin and redemption, all by pastors and Sunday school teachers that meant well. I had the knowledge, but as I chronicled in the book, but it was how I learned it. Learned it through my own experiences, mistakes, short comings, learned it through my own redemption. I’ve often said that for me it was less about believing in God and more about trusting in God, that God could do for me what I could not do for myself, particularly in the context of my addiction. When I came out of that crack house, it was because I surrendered, I had not given up I was giving in.

Religion is a destination of the mind; spirituality is a journey of the heart. Organized religion is important; it’s often the land, the cropland if you will, where you grow the crops of spirituality. You don’t have to go to church to be spiritual.

Q. Also in your book Broken, you talk about how the life-changing experiences that occur at a treatment facility or an intensive recovery program can be hard to carry back with us into our complex lives. Daily stresses, workplace challenges, paying bills and family time can consume the energy and minds of those in recovery. Besides participating in AA and other group programs, what are some recommended ways that those in recovery can create meaningful moments of reflection and spiritual enrichment?

A.I draw a lot of my spirituality from places other than church and 12 step meetings. I draw spirituality from the wild birds at my bird feeder. I draw spirituality from working with other addicts and alcoholics who are counting days. I draw spirituality from the “we” of the program, the common journey we take. I draw spirituality from never forgetting as to how low I was on the day I got sober. You can find spirituality under a rock if you’re open to it. Ultimately, it’s about openness, and it’s pretty powerful.

I draw great fortitude from the adversity of my circumstances. When I realize that I am on the Earth, despite me and despite the illness that wants to kill me, I am filled with a lot of gratitude, and when I’m filled with gratitude, I get an equal amount of humility…because I realize that I should be dead.

Q. In your columns and speeches, you've discussed much about the importance of a growing relationship with God for those with substance abuse problems. What have you learned about yourself from your changing relationship with God?

A. More than ever before, more than the last fifteen years, I think I’m more in tune with my own humanness than I ever have been, and that’s because I’m more in touch with my defects of character and my shortcomings. They have given me a sense of closeness with God, because I realize that while I believe in evolution I also believe the whole process started by a power greater than myself. To be human is to be loved and to want to love, to be creative, and to be imperfect. And that spirituality of imperfection is where I find the greatest sense of oneness with God because I realize that I’m ok, despite me, and despite my shortcomings. We are all children of God, and we are all flawed. I’ve managed to continue the course of recovery despite the ups and down of the last fifteen years.

Q. The use of technology in recovery programs has been flourishing. We've seen live online chat rooms be used to facilitate meetings with substance abusers and counselors, and encouraging text messages are incorporated into a government tobacco cessation program in New Zealand, which may be used in some US states in the coming years. How do you see this trend continuing in the coming decade, and are important components of recovery, such as human interaction and spirituality lost with the growing use of high-tech applications? Are you seeing any trends in the US with young people and recovery?

A. Technology has changed, but the basics have not…addiction is addiction is addiction. The challenges are the same. However, I think the technology of today has expedited that process. It’s a lot easier to buy drugs of abuse over the Internet, marketing to young people is far more pervasive than it was in my generation and technology has, if you will, speeded up the pitfalls that are in the way of young people. But in the same way technology has made it easier to access help, technology has also made it easier to find a twelve step meeting in your neighborhood, or experience recovery through a chat room. You don’t have to go far to find out what addiction and recovery are about, and it’s wonderful that helpful websites such as KeepComingBack.com and Hazelden.org are on the tips of your fingers.

Q. In an excerpt from Broken that you post on your website, you wrote: "I needed to get high and that need became so deep and strong that I was powerless before it. When want became need – and, truthfully, that transformation is only clear to me in retrospect -- the nature of my problem changed from using too much and too often to not being able to stop using." When did you recognize that the "want" had become a "need"? Were there any specific life events that in retrospect you believe contributed to that change? How do you ensure that you will not find yourself in that same place again?

A. I think a “want” becomes a “need” when the consequences of that need are not enough to keep you from wanting it. I think for me the defining moments in my life began when I started smoking marijuana when I was 16…that was the hole in my soul. That was the answer to my imperfections. That was the first one, the defining moment in my life. I think also getting arrested in 1980 was a defining moment because clearly I was out of control, and yet part of the defining moment was that no one wanted to put a finger on it. When I got arrested, it made no sense...it made absolutely no sense. There was no need for it. Another defining moment was when I smoked crack cocaine in 1988. It was stronger than anything I had ever experienced. My first visit to Hazelden, my relapse in 1991 and 1994, those were big moments.
To stay sober, you have to trust the process and stay the course, but it isn’t easy. As I always tell people, I got one more hit in me, but no more recovery. I am as accepting of that as the fact that I can die at any moment. I remind myself that I’m really fortunate, I’m blessed.

Q. I understand that you have been working with Hazelden in 1996. In your 2006 interview with People Magazine, you note that you were in recovery at Hazelden a couple of times. How did you make the transition as a patient to becoming an executive at Hazelden?

A. I made it despite my best laid plans. I got out of treatment the second time from Hazelden in March of 1991. I went about my life, went down in Atlanta, worked for CNN, and got remarried. I never had any intention of working for Hazelden. I went back to Hazelden because I was driven to my knees in Atlanta at a crack house. I believe that coincidences are a way that God stays anonymous. I wasn’t looking for a job. The reason why I made the transition is because I had openness, honesty and willingness. I was open to the process, and more was revealed to me. It wasn’t my life plan to be an alcoholic just as it was not my plan to work at Hazelden.

Q. On your website, in a piece that appeared in the Albuquerque Journal, you are quoted as being critical of the Clinton and Bush administrations ("I think the Bush administration is as divorced from reality as the Clinton administration when it comes to public policy," he said. "America spends $20 billion a year on the failed war on drugs." Yet just 18 percent to 20 percent of that figure is earmarked for treatment and prevention, Moyers said. "I think it needs to be balanced. It needs to be a three-footed stool approach," he said, adding, "The best way to reduce the supply of drugs in New Mexico is to reduce the demand.") Do you believe that the Obama administration will bring a fresh approach to fighting the war on drugs, and to getting to the core issue of reducing demand? Are you active politically in this area? What do you think can be done to reduce the demand for drugs?

A. I’m more hopeful than I’ve ever been in 1986. I believe the war on drugs is a failure in this country, because a disproportionate amount of money and resources in this fight goes towards reducing supply. Until you reduce demand you will always fail. Now, I’m very hopeful. President Barack Obama has appointed a new drug czar, a man who fundamentally understands the power of addiction and the promise of recovery. The new deputy director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, Tom McLellan, is a good man and a friend I have known for a long time. But as with all things, actions speak louder than words – as a nation, we have to put our resources towards prevention, treatment and recovery. We will see.